Doubt vs. Unbelief: Helping Young People Navigate Faith Challenges, Part 1

CHIP: We spent the last month talking about: we all have doubts; we all have struggles. And of course, those that are parents and grandparents, pastors, the next generation is certainly near and dear to our heart. And so as I was praying this through, I thought, who could I invite that works with young people that really is connected to what's really going on to say, “Hey, could you help us really understand what's going on in the lives, especially of younger people and where their struggles are, where are their doubts?” And so I want to welcome Sean McDowell. Great to have you with us.

SEAN: Chip, this is such a treat. I've been looking forward to this.

CHIP: Well, thanks for being with us. I did not grow up as a follower of Christ and I was a skeptic. And your dad's book, More Than a Carpenter and then Evidence that Demands a Verdict, were ones that I pored over. And, like, could this really be true in my, kind of, young struggle? So, it's great to have you with us and maybe tell us, I know you're a professor at Biola, I've watched your podcast – give me just a little bit of your background and your heart and why you do what you do.

SEAN: Yeah, I grew up in a small town in San Diego, even though my parents were missionaries and still are with CRU, I had no intention of becoming an apologist, being a professor, or following in my dad's footsteps. At one point, I thought I was going into politics. Another time, a lawyer. I thought I was going to play in the NBA, probably in junior high. Like, I just had no intention of going into this for a lot of reasons.

Really, one thing that shifted, there's a few pieces of this story, but my senior year at Biola, I had a class with J.P. Moreland, who's still to this day one of the leading philosophers, not just Christian philosophers in the world on the philosophy of mind. And it was on apologetics. And I thought, Well, this will be easy, I grew up in an apologetics family. I had no idea what I was stepping into, Chip, because my dad, like you mentioned the two books, More Than a Carpenter and Evidence That Demands Verdict, those are historical apologetics. J.P. does philosophical apologetics, the argument from consciousness, intelligent design. I heard this stuff and it was like, Whoa, this is so interesting.

And so ended up wanting to become, I wanted to work with students, I got that love from my parents. And I thought, You know what? I could teach in a youth ministry program, but you only get students an hour or two a week. I'm going to teach you to Christian school, have students three hours a week, get weekends and summers off to speak and write. And for twenty-one years, full-time and part-time, I've been teaching Bible. And this is the first year I'm actually not doing it part-time. I am a full-time apologetics professor.

So I guess to sum it up, I'm a communicator. I have a YouTube channel, I'm on Instagram, I write books, I speak and teach. And my heart is evangelism, apologetics, equipping and reaching the next generation.

CHIP: I want to just jump right in because we've covered, some of the intellectual issues, emotional issues, everything from, does Christianity work? Is it believable? But one of the things we wanted to frame everything around was this whole idea of doubt. And some people, think that any doubt you might have about God or His Word is negative. But from your perspective, what's the role of doubt? How does that play out in the development of our faith?

SEAN: I'm a natural doubter, Chip. I doubt everything. If I buy a car, I'm like, Well, maybe I should have bought this car. If I go on a vacation, I'm like, Well, maybe I could have gotten a better deal. I just doubt everything. I think I'm wired that way.

And I have a pastor friend years ago who I think has the gift of faith. And at this point, he lost his job, was looking for another one. And I'm like, “Hey, what are you going to do?” And he was like, “You know what? God is going to provide.” And I'm like, “How do you know? Maybe God wants you to suffer.” And he just looks at me and he’s like, “Sean, God's going to provide. Don't worry.”

And I remember, like, looking at that going, man, why don't I have that faith? And it hit me sometime later, I thought, you know what? If I had that kind of gift of faith as he did, I wouldn't write seven-hundred-page books defending the truth of Christianity. I wouldn't do a PhD dissertation tracing down the stories of whether or not the apostles died as martyrs to see if we could trust their testimony. It's doubts that drive me to ask questions, drive me to go in. So my friend needs me to do this and I need his strength of faith.

So people are going to have different kinds and levels of doubt. Now in our age of social media, I really don't know how anybody doesn't at least have some doubt. I don't know how it's possible with so many smart people who have, for lack of a better term, ministries all over TikTok, all over YouTube, all over trying to evangelize and disciple people out of their faith. I don't know how everybody doesn't at least have some doubt, but one key point I would make that's really important, doubt is not the opposite of faith. Unbelief is. You can believe something and have doubts. In a sense, to have doubt is just to not be one hundred percent certain that something is true.

CHIP: Right.

SEAN: But it's important we don't assume doubt is unbelief, which is why I think Jude 22 says, “Have mercy on those who doubt.” It can be painful. It can be difficult. It can be an existential crisis, which I, in part, went through.

So the last thing I'll say on this is when my students often say to me, you know, “I'm having doubts or questions,” I'll respond by saying, “Good for you.” (CHIP: Huh.) I just want to let them know, “Okay, you realize this matters.” “And you're using your mind, you're asking questions. Let's dig in and see if we can figure this out.”

CHIP: That is so helpful. Doubt is not the opposite of faith. Unbelief is. I don't think most people think of it like that. I remember, um, I didn't grow up as a follower of Christ. Right after high school, trusted Christ, got involved in the discipleship ministry, And then I really had a hunger for God. And then I decided one summer, mostly so I could play in a summer basketball league and be ready for the next year of college basketball, it really wasn't about school, but I stayed on campus. And I remember something happened. It was just a flash of, What if this isn't true? What if this is just some college emotional experience?

Now, God really changed my life, my relationships. And so, I had this experiential reality. And then I had, looking back, probably extreme spiritual warfare. But it was like darts of, You're deluded. You're crazy. None of this is true. And I went through a summer without emotional connection to God, if you know what I mean.

SEAN: Wow.

CHIP: And choosing to say, What's it look like to trust God when all these thoughts are going into my mind and I don't know what to do with them? Anyway, any insight on that person who is saying, I don't know if this is true.’”

SEAN:  Well, one point I want to make is I want to compare and contrast your story with the person in the Bible who we associate with doubt, namely Thomas. Thomas didn't say, “Gosh, I have questions. I'm not sure. I'm wrestling with this. I don't know.” Thomas said, “I will not believe unless I see and touch the nail marks in His hand and in His side.” We equate doubt with total rejection of the faith. That's what we have to reframe. You had an experience of doubt, not “I reject this. I will not believe period unless You prove it to me empirically.”

So some of the way we approach this, I think, needs to be re-shifted. I had a similar experience as you Chip. And for me, interestingly enough, I was also playing college basketball. I didn't know you're a college basketball player. We have to have that conversation sometime. And I was at Biola of all places, mid-90s. And I got online and started fishing around trying to figure out what this internet thing was and came across these atheist sites that basically started some of the atheist web responding to my dad's content in Evidence That Demands a Verdict.

CHIP: Wow.

SEAN: Chapter by chapter, doctors, lawyers, historians, philosophers. And that's the first time the weight hit me like you and I thought, Oh my goodness, what if I'm wrong about this?

CHIP: Yeah.

SEAN: It wasn't just intellectual. It was emotional. I felt it. Like it was heavy because I realized what's at stake. Well, I figured I had to tell my dad, this great apologist and, you know, in case some people don't know him, just so people have context: he's spoken to twelve hundred universities, written a hundred and sixty books, hands down, one of the most influential evangelicals in the past half century. And he's an apologist. And this is my dad. And I'm about to tell him that I'm not sure I think this stuff is true.

So just setting the table for people. And we're in Breckenridge, Colorado. And I just said, “Hey, can we go to coffee or tea or something like that?” And we sat down as best as I could remember, Chip. I wish I had a video of it. I said something to the effect of, “Dad, you know, I'm not really sure I'm convinced Christianity is true.” He didn't freak out. He looked at me and he goes, “Son, I think that's great.”

And I remember thinking, Did you even hear what I just said? And what he communicated to me was, you know, you can't believe this just because I believe it. You’ve got to decide and follow what you think is true. He said, “Don't reject Christianity, just, unless you're really convinced that it's false. And you know, your mom and I will love you no matter what.

CHIP: Wow.

SEAN: And I really don't want to over dramatize that, but it was a significant moment for me. And that's what I encourage parents to do. Don't freak out. Don't get defensive. It probably has nothing to do with your parenting or lack thereof.

And one of the most interesting studies, Chip, this was done on Millennials, Sticky Faith by Kara Powell out of Fuller Theological Seminary, they said people don't leave the faith because of doubts. They do because of unexpressed doubts. People don't leave primarily because of questions, but because of unexpressed questions that foster like a cancer.

So in many ways, it was just being able to get it off my chest and have my dad not freak out. It's like, I think about, like, when I'm on the airline and I look at the steward, you know, when we're shaking a little bit, I've traveled my whole life and I still get a little antsy. If I look at the steward and they're like freaking out, like I'm going, boy, we're going down. But they've been trained to look calm and collected and put you at ease. That's the response when kids doubt.

My dad was like, “You're going to be fine. If you seek after truth, you're going to end up following Jesus, I think. And I love you no matter what.” So he gave me space, reassured me of my love, didn't freak out. He offered to help me make sense of these, but honestly I needed somebody else outside of my dad. Like in movies sometimes you just need a mentor. So people like William Lane Craig and J.P. Moreland to answer some of those philosophical questions. And ultimately I obviously came back or stayed within the faith, I guess you could say.

CHIP: You know, I've come from most of this from a pastoral perspective and, talking with those parents that literally are, “What did I do wrong?” And the world is falling apart. And their fear often drives them to start shoving information in front of their student or young adult which actually produces exactly the opposite response of what they're really hoping for. And it's the opposite of what you described. And I say that to those listening, if you could lighten up and trust God in the midst of this and give, God some room to work in your, whether it's a teenager or young adult or college student.

One of my four kids went through a real challenging time. He's really, really smart, one of those kids that didn't have to study and did great on the test, which made his fraternal twin brother absolutely sick, you know, he would bust it and work and work and work and they'd both do well. But it was like one would just show up and not study and get, you know, two points higher than his brother. And he went through a time where he just, he looked at me and he said, “Dad, I actually really like you as a dad. I just wish you weren't a Christian dad.”

SEAN: Oh my goodness.

CHIP: And it wasn't like, oh, two weeks later, everything was fine. He went on a journey of questions and doubts, that just led to some really challenging times. Fast forward, it was three, four years later. It was not an easy or short-term time. And it kind of came to a crisis and we had to figure out, you know, where are we going to go with this? And he spent a couple days, as I remember it, he might remember it a little bit differently. I'm learning the older I get, we both have the same experience, but it is recorded very differently…

SEAN: Sure, sure.

CHIP: …or can be very different. So I just want to honor him in that. But I remember him coming out of his bedroom, at least it seemed to me, after about two days. I could see this change. And at some point later, when you could just really tell that he'd reestablished his faith, I kind of asked him, what happened? And he said, “Well, Dad, to be very honest, I really struggled. And I wrestled.” But he said, “You know, I just, I've watched you and mom and Jesus is so real to you two. And you and mom, you're first generation Christians and you're just the same at home as you are at church. I asked Jesus to be as real to me as He obviously is to you.”

And I just want to kind of say maybe to some of those parents, grandparents, or even some pastors that there's few things that we'll do to help our kids walk with God more than just with all of our imperfections, just live it out. You know, they actually do observe us. And just because they go through some seasons where they doubt or struggle, one of the greatest apologetics is the love of God and the light of God being lived out in very imperfect people like a mom and dad. And that has been a great hope and encouragement for me that I've shared with a lot of parents going through rough times.

SEAN: That's an amazing story. Thanks for sharing that. That line just jumped out to me, “I wish you weren't a Christian dad.” I mean, every bone or nerve inside of me would want to get defensive and get angry and react and feel offended. Like that's just a natural human response. But if we ask ourselves, What's best for our kid in this situation is just to listen…

CHIP: Yeah.

SEAN: …And say, “Tell me about that. What do you wish that I was? Why do you wish I wasn't a Christian?”

CHIP: Yeah.

SEAN: ”What do you understand that Christianity is? When did you first have this thought that you wished it were different?” I mean, just be curious and lean in. And it sounds like that's what you did. So, great stories, powerful stuff, Chip.

CHIP: You know, it was just probably one of those times where my lack of response was probably the best thing I could have ever done other than it broke my heart.

SEAN: Of course.

CHIP: But, you know, as we're talking here, a lot of things boil down to real personal relationship. And as I heard you: be curious, ask questions, find out where did this start? Give people some space. And I'm going to write this down for my pastoral counseling in the future, your words, “Don't freak out.” That was a great line.

As you're with young people all the time now, what are the challenges where did the struggles come up, and what's been the most effective way to help them develop their own faith? Which really is the goal here. We're not trying to figure out how as parents or pastors or grandparents to brainwash our kids to get in a little box and believe this or believe that. It's to meet the living God and know emotionally and intellectually and volitionally: this is true and I believe it for me.

SEAN: Yeah, that's a good two-part question. Let's start with the first part that you said about the challenges that they face and then get to what the positive steps are that we can take biblically. I think there's different kinds of challenges. I think in this generation, of course, we're hearing about anxiety and depression and loneliness. So mental health issues in some ways affect the way we process truth. It becomes like a filter through which we read the Scripture, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively.

There was just an article last week in the New York Times, talking about how since 2019, the percentage of “nones” has flatlined. So we've heard since the 90s, the N-O-N-E-S, those who are not religious has been increasing, and yet it's flatlined. And yet this article said, and they were citing Ryan Burge, who's one of the experts on this, that as older generations die out and Millennials and Gen Zers become more of the population, the shift towards nones and secularism is going to increase substantially. And I think he's probably right.

The thing that he said was, he cited, this is one piece of it, but they said just the Church abuse scandals, they said a lot of younger Christians, maybe thirty and below and non-Christians are looking at the Church saying, “Are they necessarily more moral than I am? Are they good? Are they really living differently?” And if they're not, this is back to your point earlier, Chip, like if we're not living it and modeling the life of Christ, it doesn't matter what we say, what apologetic we give. There's issues of just our witness in this frazzled, polarized, angry culture. I think questions of science and faith still bubble to the surface, especially with artificial intelligence and the soul and the afterlife and evolution, like science is still such an authority in our culture that that comes.

And then I think questions about just the exclusivity of faith. I mean, this generation, I was talking yesterday with my students at Biola how when I was in high school, it was like, everyone was talking about tolerance. Now it's diversity and inclusiveness. And yet the gospel, you know, some think it's a white man's religion, whether true or not, they think it's not diverse. And also, it seems exclusive, the opposite of inclusivity. So that's exploded with this generation in a way that's different with previous generations, arguably, at least at this stage of development.

I think some of the intellectual questions are things like, I mean, I just get questions all the time about sexuality everywhere I go. The LGBTQ conversation. And it's not just what does Romans 1 say about this. So what does the science show about whether you're born this way or not? It's, “I have a friend who's this way. And can I really love Jesus and love them? Am I a bigot? How do I navigate this?” Like those are real questions that I think this generation is wrestling with. And so we’ve got to walk them through what Scripture says, why it says it and why it's good for them.

I'm going to say at the root of the Christian ethic is to love our neighbor. Why? Because they're made in the image of God. This is a Judeo-Christian belief. Gay or straight, regardless of sexual orientation, you have infinite value because you reflect our Creator. So it is the Christian ethic Jesus gave, you know, the Samaritan, about loving those who might be different. So let's start there and ask what does it look like to love our neighbors, LGBTQ or not?

Well, then let's ask the question, some of this really, I would take a step back, is a question of biblical authority. I really think the root is, do we take authority from culture, from our feelings, from experience, ultimately from science, or from Scripture? So in some ways we've got to come back to the question of what do we consider authoritative and why? Which is why with this generation, we not only have to teach them what the Bible says, but why it says what it says.

So my twelve-year-old son, we were just talking, we do breakfast together in the morning when we can. And I've been talking with him, either gospel of John, or I've been talking with him about this book on how to talk to your kids about sex. And I just said, “What is God's design for sex?” He gave an answer for it. And I just said, “Why do think God gives that design?”

And I listened to him and I said, “You know, God's design is to protect us. When we step outside of God's design, there can be emotional hurt. There can be relational wounding. There can be things like STDs when we step outside of God's design. But you know, positively,” I said, “Buddy,” you know, he's twelve, I said, “do you think it's important for a kid to have a mom and a dad?” He said, “Yeah.” I said, “Do moms parent differently than dads parent?” He said, “Yes.” That's God's design and that's good.

So one of the reasons God says marriage is one man and one woman in a committed relationship for life is so kids grow up in the optimal environment where they have a mom and a dad and the sociological research shows that that's the environment in which we flourish most.

So that's a few points that I would make and the “T” is different than the “L” and the “G” and the “B.” Speaking to a Christian kid is different than speaking to somebody who's a non-Christian. But I just want to pull back and say God is the one who gave us the ethic of equality. God is the one who gave us the ethic of love your neighbor. God is the one who gave us the ethic that we have value because we are human.

But that same God designed marriage and He designed our bodies to operate a certain way. And when we follow the owner's manual, which is according to God's design, we actually flourish as human beings most.

So these are some of the questions this generation wrestles with as a whole. The best thing I found is when I have a young person front of me is I don't want to assume they're wrestling with A, B, or C. I just want to ask questions, listen and figure out the heart of what they're dealing with, and try to address that if I can.