Navigating Life with Adult Children, Part 1

Chip: We've gotten so many letters and emails about this topic and I thought, we've gotta help people, but I've got enough issues with my adult children I wanted to come to an expert. So, Jim, you've got a number of principles that we've taken, what we felt like were the top six that we hear from our audience. And I would just like you to go over those and, let's just have a conversation to help the people that are, I think having. at best challenges and at worst, some real hard times.

Jim Burns: The more we think about it, as our kids get to be adults, they're running parallel journeys. We don't know what. We're doing as a parent of an adult child. 'cause we've never done that before, and they don't know what they're doing because they've never been an adult before. So the first principle is your role as a parent has to change. In fact, I tell parents, you're fired. Not as a parent, but you're fired as a day-to-day parent because you've invested two decades of your life pretty much in control and focusing on those kids. And now they're leaving. And so what you've gotta do is actually help them leave by giving them the passport to adulthood. And I don't think that's easy for them sometimes, and I know it's not easy for us, especially if they're not making those great decisions.

Chip: Yeah. I know for me, I was an old coach, pastor I have a lot of suggestions. I've got a lot of, 'Hey, this is how you can do it.' That did not go over real well. And I realized that talk about that role, that passport. I had to become a consultant. And that's a very, very different role. How do you, how do you launch them? What are specific things you can do to help them?

Jim Burns: Well, really I think there is a job description, and I agree with you: it's not easy. I'm the guy who said so, so why do they need to go to Europe to find themselves? I have all the answers right here, you know? But if I'm gonna do it right, I've gotta help them launch by actually rewriting the script and rewriting the way I do it. And I've been a parent of a child and even when teens, it was a parent child relationship. But I think we have to move it to an adult to adult relationship. And I find for a lot of parents, they have trouble there because their kids aren't exactly acting like adults, especially in those, what we call the emerging adult years. But when we do that, that means that in launching them, we have to help them, become more independent. And really they're moving from dependence on you toward independence. My kids would say, well, I'm an adult. And I'd be saying, well, I'm paying for your cell phone. I'm actually paying for your college. I think there's an insurance bill that we're popping for.

And so it was hard. I think it's important for us to, as we give them that passport, I think we have to be encouraging, but not intrusive. And we wanna be intrusive because a lot of times we have that right answer. But again, as a parent, we have to let them experience, some of the highs and the lows. Uh, I learned how to ride a bike because I skinned my knee. And this is a time period that's really hard for us, because if not, there'll be a failure to launch if we just kind of keep doing it for them.

Chip: We see that a lot, don't we?

Jim Burns: Yeah.

Chip: You know the joke of the 30-year-old in the back bedroom, who's eating mom's food, mom's doing the clothes, all those and never grow up. And you know, Psalm 127, I love this passage. Children are heritage from the Lord an offspring of reward like arrows in the hands of a warrior. Children are born in one's youth. Yeah. Blessed in the man whose quiver is full of them. And then he talks about they won't be put to shame when they contend to their opponents in the court And the idea that our kids are arrows launched toward a target.That there's intentionality. That the real goal isn't that everything is the way you like it, but they actually fulfill the purpose that God has for them.

Jim Burns: And I think that's hard for us because we like, or at least I liked, I liked them being dependent on me. And one of the aspects of that first principle of your role as a parent has to change for me is, I have to ask the question, am I helping or enabling dependency? And I think sometimes it's our fault because we still wanna be needed and we don't like the role that has now been given us. But when you talk about that Scripture and you talk about launching them with arrows, then we have to help them become responsible adults. And isn't that the bottom line? We want our kids to be responsible adults who love God. Nobody said it was gonna be perfect. In fact, the Scripture is very clear that it's not going to be this easy, clear path. There's gonna be some bumps and bruises along the way, but they learn through those bumps and bruises. If we enable dependency, then that's more our problem as a parent, instead of allowing them to launch and let them experience some of the highs and lows of life, we had to do that.

Chip: Yeah. And, they have to make some decisions that don't go so well. This sort of emotional or physical or sometimes even financial skinning of their knee. I have three sons and a daughter they're all grown now. And I'm, I'm learning about this and your book was very, very helpful. But my youngest he just didn't like school. And so one six weeks he'd do well, and then he'd just fall off the cliff. Well, this is like for five years in a row. So he graduates from high school and I'm gonna go to college. And, and I remember thinking this through, okay, wait a second: this isn't my money, this is God's money. And I sit down with him and I say, you've never put two six weeks together. And so I said, son, this may sound cruel, but um, you can work for a year, I'll give you a very low rent. In fact, I'll take all the money and I'll put it towards your college, but you need to come up with $10,000 and work for the next year. So you pay for that first semester. And then if you do well, we'll jump in it together.

And, you know, he did landscaping and then he did window tinting. And then after about six months, he said, Dad, I got news for you. I'm going to college. Now those are good jobs, but he realized I really need to become responsible. And I talked until I was blue in the face. But that experience is what taught him it.

Jim Burns: Well, experience is a better teacher than advice. You know, each child is different along the way. And when we do that, we have to look at each individual and say what is best for them to help them launch to become a responsible adult.

There's an element of it too, in that, when we let them go, there is a sense of loss.I find a lot of parents and I'm in the same place you are, I have three daughters. So of course we had no hormones or drama in our life, but I have three daughters who are now, launched and yet there was a sense of loss for us. Our identity was around those kids and now that we're launching them, we had to almost grieve the fact that we're in a different phase, even though it's a great phase.

Chip: I would say too, it is often very different for the woman than it is the man. And being on the same page about launching. My wife intellectually understood that our son has to be responsible or sending him to college is not a good plan. Her head got that, her heart didn't. I mean, It's embarrassing for him, I mean, how can you do this? I said, well, we either can protect him or we can help him grow up. And sometimes helping people grow up, is hard.

Jim Burns: Exactly right. As the role changes, we have to get as, physically emotionally and spiritually healthy together. And I actually think sometimes for people who are married, and I realize there's a lot of single parents out there. But for people who are married, one of the most important things is that they get on the same page. They make some of those decisions. Now, again, we're never gonna be totally on the same page. Kathy and I aren't on the same page and we write books on parenting, and marriage. That's what's funny. But the point being is the more you can be united.

And it really does take some time and effort. And, I didn't think it was gonna be as complicated as they became young adults and and adults. And, it is complicated and it was complicated for Kathy and I to work on ourselves. But when we work on our own selves, somebody once said to me, untended fires soon become nothing but a pile of ashes. And I realized that during a season, and even when our kids were teens, we weren't tending the fire within our own souls and we weren't tending the fire within our own marriage enough. And so we had to, kind of do some, course corrections, in order to help those kids launch.

Chip: Uh, so the second principle here is unsolicited advice is usually taken as criticism. Could you unpack that for us?

Jim Burns: You know what's funny is I was saying to you that people, they start shaking their heads once I say that unsolicited advice is usually taken as criticism. They go, oh, oh, that's my kid. But the principle is keep your mouth shut, the welcome mat out. Now there are some things that when a kid is, is stray deeply and having struggles, obviously they need to know what we believe, what we think. But I think we do that too often, and then they don't launch. So it goes back to the idea that, they don't want advice. They're not seeking sometimes our advice. And the fact is, is that they're gonna have to learn, it's back to what we said in that first principle, that experiences a better teacher then advice. And I think that's really hard for us because we typically do know the answers. We typically do have the answers, and it's hard to sit back and say, 'Okay, they're gonna have to navigate this.''

Chip: And I think we often feel very rejected. I mean it's like you're now 19, 20, and you don't even ask me. How did I get dumb? And then we have a conversation sitting around the table or over a cup of coffee someplace and you're telling me, oh, I got this off the internet, or so and so says this. I'm thinking, what, do you mean? And it was really hard, I think for us to accept them pulling away is a part of them growing up.

Jim Burns: And, and actually that's healthy. Because a lot of times we don't see that as healthy. It gets back to our own unhealthiness. But really them pulling away is a positive trait because they're gonna have to figure out how to do it on their own. I think we have to ask for permission.

Chip: Hmm. How, how have you done that with your kids?

Jim Burns: Well, I remember with Christie one time, Christie and Steve, my son-in-law, they were living with us for two months. And they were gonna move to Texas for a year. And they were talking about the move. And so I'm listening in on this and I'm not thinking either one of 'em have a really good idea on how they're gonna move.

They're trying to do it cheap, So I walked in and I said, "Can I ask you guys for permission to kind of give you some advice?" Christie, who's in an intense conversation with Steve, says, "Not now, Dad!" And I went. "Oh" and I thought, wait people pay me to give them advice, and my own daughter doesn't want this. So I walked away and I did the right thing.

Chip: I had an interesting, uh, situation on this keep your mouth shut. My son-in-law, I knew him before my daughter did. And I could tell he was a little bit sweet on her and it was a long journey. And he asked me to mentor him. We met every week for like two years, and man, we're really tight, and he's digging into the Scriptures. And, it's been really, really great. I'm over at his house and he goes, Could we be peers?" I said, "What?" "Well, I appreciate your wise counsel, but it just feels like every time we're together, you're either sharing something you're learning, or here's a thought you might have, or no matter what I'm doing, you sort of wanna help me. I mean, I really respect you, but could we just hang out? I didn't even know I was doing it, Jim.

Jim Burns: Right. And and you had been in a different role with him.

Chip: Yeah.

Jim Burns: And I think we do that with our kids. We do that sometimes with the significant others and the in-laws. and what he really did was he gave you a gift. I love all the advice and all the respect that I have for you. But the fact is I, I want to change the relationship just a little bit.

Chip: We kinda came full circle and I, had to learn to shut up.

Jim Burns: Yeah. it's so key for us though, to have the kind of relationship with them that they do come back. He's gonna continue to ask for advice but he wants that relationship to be kind of on his term. And so what do we do? We become their greatest cheerleader.

Chip: Yes.

Jim Burns: And I think sometimes when we are their significant cheerleader, then they really are gonna be willing to ask. And I find that when my kids, when they come and, seek advice from me, now they really want to because they're asking me and I wanna be open to that. But if I'm too intrusive, they're not gonna want it.

Chip: I finally learned that the way that builds that bridge, so they come and ask, is listening and asking questions.

Jim Burns: Yeah.

Chip: Proverbs 9:8- 10 says, 'Do not rebuke a mocker lest he hate you. Rebuke a wise man and he'll love you. Give instruction to a wise man and he becomes still wiser. Teach a righteous man and they'll add to their learning. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."

And I think there's times where, they don't want to hear. And coming on super strong, not only is it not well received, it actually begins to cause distance and resentment. And we're not talking just about cultural issues and the kind of music you listen to but you know, this is about your education or maybe a moral issue and you're just getting a wall. What do you say to that parent?

Jim Burns: Yeah, I think it's hard, and I've experienced that with my kids. In fact, one of my daughters, she was about an hour away in college and she wasn't making all great choices. And I would go up every Tuesday. And I always had a list in my pocket. that I wanted to cover, but I found that it was much better when it was more natural in the conversation. And sometimes it was, and there were times Chip when I would get in that car and I'd say, did I waste my time? I just had a meal with her, but I didn't get to go through my list. And you know what's interesting is I found that just pouring into her and she knew what I was doing and she probably knew I had a list, to be honest.

But there were other times when, with her especially, I needed to say, We need to talk through this. and I just, I wanna tell you, I love you. I trust you, I think you're gonna make good decisions, but I feel like, I'm still your dad, I need to have this conversation. But it's what you did with your son-in-law. I think it comes through asking the right questions. It's a little bit like fishing, you know, you're waiting for that fish to bite. You gotta have some patience and perseverance, and you don't have to have the answer immediately. 'Cause if we jump in, then I think they're gonna pull back.

Chip: I don't know where you're at, but here's the principle, keep your mouth shut and keep the welcome mat open. I mean, that's the principle. And it's rooted in a book that, Jim wrote that I have passed on to so many people. Doing Life with Your Adult Children. And here's a couple guys that are navigating life and have done that with their adult children.

And we're gonna talk now about principle number three: become a student of their culture. And I think this is really critical because the culture has changed so quickly and the dynamics behind it have changed so radically. I think a lot of parents they feel the change, but I don't think they understand it.

Jim Burns: You described it really well. It's a mindset shift. You know, my parents were bugged because the Beatles had long hair. But the fascinating thing is, is the culture has shifted and it shifted quickly. So what I'll say a lot of times to parents of adult children is they experienced so much, so differently. Not only as children, for example, they saw the iPhone birthed.

Chip: Right.

Jim Burns: We didn't. There are so many things like that that changed. And I think for a lot of us, we know that, but we don't become students of the culture. And so I think it's important for parents to not agree with everything that's changing in the culture.

Chip: Sure.

Jim Burns: But to actually be students in the culture. For example, I just saw that there are twice as many atheists in Gen Z than in the Millennials. And we've been worried about the Millennials, but that's gonna help me understand this new generation of kids and what their mindset is. But we need to know some of the distinctives because I think we can pair it better when we know the distinctives. So one of the distinctives is they're shaped by technology, means that's how they're gonna shop. That's how they're going to work. So because they're shaped by technology, we just have to understand that they have. Influences that we didn't have, and it's influenced quickly.

Another part of that is, this generation, they don't, live to work, they work to live. And so they're not gonna get the gold watch by being someplace for, you know, 35 years. They're just probably not gonna get that. And there's a positive side to that too, but it drives parents nuts.

You know, I have a daughter who has a master's degree in business and most every year she kind of changes. but that's just the norm. This is a generation that meanders towards responsibility. And it bugs parents like crazy. Now when you ask millennials even Gen Z you know, what are the important factors in your life? They wanna have a good marriage, they wanna be good parents. But they're not gonna be going to the latest Jim Burns seminar or read the big thick books. They're looking at podcasts. They're looking at three minute videos, maybe a TED Talk, if they're really gonna go for it.

Chip: Yeah. My daughter said, Oh, dad, I only listen to podcasts and we don't have a TV. We get all our information if I wanna watch something on YouTube, but it's more than just technology and information. They have a different mindset too, don't they?

Jim Burns: So one of the other points is, is that this generation views tolerance as a form of loving. Sometimes that really struggles when you have a biblical worldview. I don't wanna be narrow, but at the same time, I do believe the Bible and they get frustrated at a point because of this tolerance.

So even though we disagree, it's possible to produce what I call A.W.E. If you, if you came into my office right on my desk, it's a yellowed post-it note now, but it says A period, W period, E, period. And it stands for affection, warmth, and encouragement. And I think what we wanna do, even in the midst of not totally understanding the culture or agreeing with the culture, is that we, give them plenty of affection.

Now some choose to make poor choices, even sexually, not because wanted sex, they craved affection. And they weren't getting it from home. And so I think we give them affection with lots of, praise and, And then warmth is setting the tone.You can disagree with your kids and you can even disagree with some of the cultural decisions, but you can still set a tone of warmth. My mom did that. You know, my dad was an alcoholic, we have a similar background growing up. And yet my mom set a tone in our home. So what that meant was, sure she had issues, but she still set a tone of warmth. We were drawn to her. So we've gotta be the people who give them lots of affection and warmth and encouragement, even when we are looking at a worldview differently than they are.

Chip: A couple things come to my mind uh, one is I had one son go through a pretty decent season of rebellion and, and he wasn't way out there morally that was really challenged with his faith. And, I had these two rules. One, nothing you can do is gonna cause me to stop loving you.

Jim Burns: So good.

Chip: And number two is you can't have your own selfish way inside our home, you know?

Jim Burns: Perfect.

Chip: I mean, his attitude was terrible. And I went out to breakfast with him once a week and he would roll his eyes and I would just think, this is the biggest waste of time. And I was waiting for that big moment and big breakthrough. But it was just the presence. And you know, he turned back around and, talking about, became a student of them. He had this passion for music and, it's like, Hey son, music is nice, but you gotta make a living. Yeah. And so I'm telling him, you really ought to, uh, major in something, you know, do your music on the side.

No, dad, I, I don't want to go to college. This is what I want to do. And we're in the living room and he goes, dad, I believe God is leading me to go into music. And then he puts his hands on his hips and he said, Who told me to dream a dream and trust God and step out? And I remember in that moment realizing, Hey son, you're right. How can I support you in that? In my mind, did I think he was ever gonna make it music? Absolutely not. But he was a very hardheaded kid and he eventually actually made it music.

Jim Burns: Is that beautiful?

Chip: You know, and writes a lot of songs that we sing. But I think it's that coming to where you understanding him and realize, it's his life.

Jim Burns: Right?

Chip: And it wasn't immoral. But there are times when, their culture and our values really start telling a different story. And we have to be willing to lean in. In fact, my passage for this one is the Apostle Paul. He says to the Jews, I became like a Jew to win the Jews to those under the law. I became like one under the law, though I myself, I'm not under the law so as to win those under the law to those not having the law. I became like one, not having the law, though I'm free, not from the law, but under Christ's law. So as to when those not having the law to the weak. I became weak to win the weak. I've become all things to all men. That I might save some. How do we do that as parents?

Jim Burns: Well, I think your illustration with your son is a perfect illustration of that. Children, even when they're young, regard your very presence as a sign of caring and connectedness. And they still need dad, and they still need mom to be present in their life. It's in a different way. But when you do that, you still are their greatest influence. When they were young, you were an influence, and as they're old, it's not like it's gonna go away. You're gonna still influence them. But from a different manner. But it is your presence.