Next Gen. Collegiates Meet Jesus

CHIP: I want to welcome Jennie Allen, the founder and visionary for the IF:Gathering. She's a New York Times bestselling author. But I know her as like a regular lady with a big passion and a mom with four kids and someone who's willing to step outside the box and really say, Lord, I'll do whatever You want me to do if You'll just show me. So Jennie, welcome to the program.

JENNIE: Thanks, Chip, it's great to be here.

CHIP: Catch me up just a little bit on your family and what's been on your heart in terms of ministry.

JENNIE: It has been quite a year for all of us. Praise God in this exact moment all four of my kids are well and trusting Jesus and it's really fun to watch our kids grow up and follow Him and so that is so much fun. My husband and I are enjoying a newer season where there's still kids in and out but not quite as crazy as it's been in the past. And then ministry is crazier than it's ever been. So we are beginning this new venture with Gather25, we are, you know, still leading an organization called IF:Gathering and then writing is still a big part of my life as well. And then, you know, what God surprised me with this year that I never saw coming was my friend Tanya Pruitt invited me to a college event. And I said yes, actually, I said no a few times, and I said yes. And it just kind of exploded from there. We've been on eleven campuses.

CHIP: Wow.

JENNIE: So it feels about like every week in a semester we're somewhere in the world on a secular campus sharing Jesus and it's just taken off. It's been so encouraging and so much fun to be a part of that.

CHIP: Well, I'm going to ask you about that and what you're hearing and maybe some words of wisdom for those that are listening that have young adults, teenagers, college-aged people who care about the next generation. But for those that don't know anything about you, this lady really teaches God's Word with power and authority. And we've known each other for a long time, largely from a distance. How did you and I get connected? And just a little bit of your journey so they can get how in the world did you go from… well, I don't want to steal your story.

JENNIE: Yeah, so I was married, I believe, with a couple kids and Zac and I decided to go to seminary and, Chip, I think you came to speak probably at chapel and then you had a little brown bag lunch afterwards and my husband met you there and from there we listened to, I believe it was cassette tapes at the time on Holy Ambition, which was so good for me because I had always been someone who had dreams and visions, and they were big dreams and visions. They were for the whole world, which is so crazy because now with Gather25, I'm literally leading an event that is for the entire world, like every nation on earth.

And so, it's just funny that I was built that way. And for the first time when I listened to that book, I believe this wasn't something that was bad and this was something that probably God had put in me, and that there was a way to be driven and ambitious for the gospel. And, gosh, that was freeing for me. And it still is like a foundational truth that if I didn't have that, I had grown up in a world where a lot of the things that I do now, whether it's, you know, social media or podcasts or writing books or leading huge events, a lot of those things in my mind at that point…now I know today everybody wants to be an influencer, everybody wants to do this. But back, you know, fifteen, twenty years ago, that wasn't the case. There weren't many female authors. I really had to work through a lot of my fears and approval idols to be able to do that at that time.

And so, I'm really grateful for your ministry. I will never forget one time you said something like, “The biggest battle you're going to fight,” and I remember thinking, What is he going to say? What is he going to say? And you said is, “…getting out of your bed.” And I was like, “Yep, that's me!” But you were so practical and I hope I've learned a little from you over the years and thank you for investing in my husband; you've spent a lot of time with him. I'm so grateful for that and just been such an encouragement to us.

CHIP: Well, I think of the passage where Jesus says, “Give and it will be given unto you.” And little did I know that, you know, I got to be a part of that, which is exciting. And for those that are kind of maybe a little bit new, Holy Ambition is the story of Nehemiah. And God places this regular person, business guy, with a dislocated heart, takes a radical step of faith, develops a strategic plan, recruits a bunch of people, goes through great opposition, and literally turns the course of Jewish history and God's plans from this is dead in the water to God is going to do everything He said.

And in many ways that's really a little snapshot of what the Lord has done in and through you and Zac and IF and the team. And so that is super, super exciting. And now I'm on the other end where all my daughter-in-laws, this is crazy. I have four daughter-in-laws. All my daughter-in-laws have been involved at some level with the IF:Gathering. And I think two or three of them actually have been the host in their cities over the years. And the last time I bumped into you, it was like, “Oh, I didn't know you were going to be here.” And we were talking and I thought, If I don't get you to sign one of your books for a couple of my daughter-in-laws, I'm going to be in big trouble.

JENNIE: Oh, that's so dear.

CHIP: So thank you for the way that you've ministered to those that I love as well.

JENNIE: Thank you. Thank you, Chip.

CHIP: Well, let's talk about the next generation because we've really. I mean, we know all the statistics. Sixty-eight or seventy percent of the people in our Bible-believing churches who, five years after high school, have left the faith. We know about the nones that are just a group of people that have no religious affiliation. In the next generation, it's astronomical. It's almost like fifty percent of Gen Z. And, you know, it's kind of doom and gloom and it's terrible. But God is working and He's doing some amazing things, so why don't you share with us what's happening on these college campuses and just… what you're excited about and why.

JENNIE: Well, let me go back I was recently in a maximum security prison in Las Vegas, and it was with a beautiful ministry God Behind Bars. And they invited me to come in and do a revival at this prison where they really hadn't had a church be able to come in since COVID. And so it was just about a hundred and eighty women, all of them there for decades. And, I mean, these are women who had molested children or had committed murders these were pretty serious crimes to end up in this place. And I walk in the room, they're crossed arms, they're not really excited to be there, but maybe it was better than whatever the other option was. And I preached Jesus and there was such a turn in their demeanor about halfway through the talk. I said something, you know, we went back and analyzed like, when did it turn? And I said something like, that God saw the thousand things that happened to you before you did the thing that got you here…

CHIP: Hm.

JENNIE: …and that He loves you and He sees you and He cares for you. And this, you know, it started off with, “How do you view God?” And they were like, “He hates me. He's disappointed in me. He…” you know, all these statements. And by the end, it was, “He loves me. He delights over me. He cares about me. He's compassionate toward me.” It was, there was such a shift. I literally asked that question at the beginning and the end and it was night and day. And so, I shared the gospel after that and ninety percent of the room accepted Christ that night.

CHIP: Wow.

JENNIE: Ninety percent. We baptized a hundred and ten women that night. And, I mean, people were going nuts, like cheering so loud. They couldn't believe who was getting baptized. I will never forget it. But I start with that story because I just don't think any of us are that different from those women.

CHIP: Yes.

JENNIE: I think all of us have this sense down deep in our souls that we are not measuring up, that we are a giant disappointment, that God is- is not for us, that He doesn't see us, that He doesn't care about us. There's, now, some of us know our theology and we know better, but I'm just talking about a general sense when

CHIP: Yes.

JENNIE: we sit down and pray, when we meet with God, I think a lot of people experience shame and that was, you know, that is the number one enemy we have in life, right? Sin comes and that is certainly part of the fall and the enemy, but that sin is paid for if you believe in the blood of Jesus. What's left on the other side though, sometimes it's still shame.

CHIP: Yes.

JENNIE: And so that shame is just this persistent thing that causes us to be addicted to our phones, that causes many people to be addicted to alcohol, pornography, um to make really, really, really bad decisions. And for that, I just, I use what happened that night as an example that's really true for all of us. And so when you look at the next generation, I want you to think of them just like those women. We've got a generation that has turned to all kinds of things. They've turned to heavy drugs, they've turned to sexual addictions, they've turned to gender confusion, same-sex attraction, they've turned to everything. Of course they have.

CHIP: We've seen exactly the same thing. One of the things that happened post-COVID, we started reaching out to pastors, first online and it just mushroomed. It went all around the world and then we went live and now we found ourselves in all these different countries. But with pastors who are hurting, completely broken, the openness, I think, I was at Lausanne recently, seventy thousand people are coming to know Jesus each and every day in the world.

JENNIE: Mm.

CHIP: That's good news. That's a radical amazing thing. Now, that's happening in Southeast Asia, Africa, South America, a number of places more than in Northern, Western civilization, Europe, America. But it hit exactly what you said. There's a level of desperation…

JENNIE: Yeah

CHIP: …that is the precursor to an openness to realize, “I've tried everything.” You know, “All we like sheep have gone astray,” we've followed our own way. And when you get to the end of your own way, there's nothing left.

JENNIE: The next thing after post-Christian is pre-Christian. And that is a desperate person that turns from: there is no God and I have no hope to, oh my gosh, somebody loves me. Somebody sees all my sin and they still care about me. That is a miracle and they are seeing it and believing it and it's changing their lives and I can tell you a lot of stories.

CHIP: And that's a generation that is primed. But if you keep telling them, “Well, you got all these problems and there's judgmentalism and, you know, you're not worth anything and what's wrong with everything?” You can blame ‘til the cows come in. But that's not the good news. You bring in the good news that this is who God really is and this is why Jesus really came.

JENNIE: People are people are people. We're all looking for the same thing. My friend, Dr. Curt Thompson says that every person comes into the world looking for someone looking for them. And they're doing that. They're doing that on their phones, they're doing that in their bad decisions, they're looking for an identity, they're looking for somebody that's looking for them. And so I just believe in them. I think they're zealots. they're actually not cynical, which is super refreshing.

CHIP: Mm-hmm.

JENNIE: They are really just hungry for hope and they're hungry to get out of whatever they've been stuck in. I, you know, when we gather on these campuses, my friend Tanya's vision was, “Jennie, I want you to do confession.” And I had done it for a big group at Passion Conference one year and she had seen it and she just said, “I want you to have people confess sin.”

And so, I was like, “Okay, I can do that.” I do that a lot in places for people. It's something I think I'm uniquely gifted to do and it's pretty unbelievable. We'll have stadiums full of kids and they get so honest. They will say whatever they need to say to get free. They will say, “I had an abortion,” and I've never told anybody.” They will say, “I'm addicted to porn.” They will say, “I'm same-sex attracted.” They will say things they've never said out loud.

And it's pretty wild; the room shifts. And the power shift goes from bondage and places where the enemy has just had strongholds in their life to there's really, I’ve begun to call it a weapon, a spiritual weapon. You think about in 2 Corinthians 10 where he describes the war that we're living in and he says that, “I have given you divine weapons to destroy strongholds.” I really believe one of those weapons is confession.

CHIP: Mm-hm.

JENNIE: Repentance and confession. And so, as people say out loud things that they've never said, it does break some of the fear and the power and they are able to receive the gospel because they see their need. That's what I love about this generation is they're not arrogant. They don't think they're better than people. They really just want hope and if you have that they'll listen to you. And if you love them and see them they'll listen to you.

CHIP: Okay, we're on these eleven campuses, but I think a lot of us are thinking, Now wait a second. Are you telling me that on secular campuses…

JENNIE: Mm-hm.

CHIP: …thousands of students are going to come to hear someone who's like unashamedly going to be, “This is about Jesus.” I can't even get my arms around it.

JENNIE: Yeah, no, I get it. I mean, I think it is a miracle. We all feel like it's a miracle. The ministry is called Unite. And it's super simple. Like they all show up and we always can't believe it. It's a free event. And then we do confession, we share the gospel, there's a chance to respond, and then a lot of times at the end, we will invite people to be baptized, and it's been so fun. We've been in truck beds and ponds and -he first event we did was in Auburn and it was unbelievable. And we ended up baptizing in a pond down the street until midnight. And when that happened, all of these news organizations began to cover it.

And so then my friend Tanya was getting all these calls from different campuses saying, “Come here, come here!” And so that was the beginning of it. My friend, Jonathan Pokluda and I have a very small role. Like, we are the speakers and that's what we do, but it is beautiful to see these students. They have to invite people, they have to raise money to rent the arena and do production and all the parts.

They have to market. Tanya and her team will go into fraternities, sororities, sports teams, everything. And it's just so fun. I mean we can't believe it. Every single time it feels like a miracle because it'll be anywhere from five to ten thousand kids in an arena. And it's just such a wild, fun night every time.

CHIP: Well, I know that seeing them come to Christ is step one and you just don't leave it there. Your partnership with Unite and of course your long journey with IF is freedom and then community. Because I think some of the criticism that you hear from people is, “Oh, yeah, people have these emotional experiences, but where's the real discipleship?” I know that's on your heart and my heart. How do we help them get connected and really walk that out?

JENNIE: Well, I mean, specifically with Unite, local churches are always behind this and helping and connecting with these kids after we leave. So there is some follow up. But to give you a story, when I did confession at Passion, this kid comes and finds me two years later. And, I mean, I we didn't have any follow up. I don't think Passion had any follow up with him. But, his life changed that night. He said, “I confessed my sin. I gave my life to Jesus. And I was a drug dealer for, on my campus. And I thought if I go back, I'm going to fall back into this. And everybody's still going to be coming to me for drugs. So I'm never going back.” So it was February or January. And he never went back to his school. And now two years later, he came and found me and said, “I just want you to know I changed. And now I'm getting a ministry training education and I'm going into the mission field.”

CHIP: Wow.

JENNIE: And so he's just fire. So, I think we also need to be less cynical and we need to…

CHIP: Yes.

JENNIE: …believe that the Holy Spirit is and always has been changing lives. And, yes, we need the Church and we need all of you, anyone who's listening, every one of you should be discipling multiple people because the next generation needs to know their Bibles. Yes. And the next generation needs to know what it means to be a part of a healthy church and to shape the healthy churches. And the next generation needs to know how to parent and to lead in a godly way. And so all of that is on us.

CHIP: Yes.

JENNIE: Like that's all of our work. And so we can go in and cause that to happen. But at the end of the day, if you're going to complain about the next generation, you better show me ten kids or ten young adults that you're discipling because that's the only way this changes is if all of us does exactly what Jesus did which is take a handful of people and make disciples. That is the way the world changes.

So we are certainly not negating that but we are expecting the Church to play that role. That's the Church. That's what we do. It's our only commission to go make disciples and to baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit which is, you know, we're part of that but yeah, it's going to be the local churches and all of you listening that love Jesus.

CHIP: Everything in me wanted to yell, “Preach it, sister. Preach it, sister.” The reason we got where we are is we filled churches and thought success was how many people come on a weekend service or parents begin to think that if I drop my kid off at a youth group or if they're involved in the church or go on a mission trip, somehow I've discipled them instead of in God's Word with them, modeling for them, literally discipling our own kids. Theresa and I are, right now, partnering with our local church and it's all these young couples.

JENNIE: Mm, how fun.

CHIP: And so they asked me to teach, you know, I wrote a book on Marriage that Works and so we're going through that and some of it is, I mean, so counterintuitive to the culture, you know, about, as a man step up and as a woman. And instead of pushback, it's like, “Could you guys stay a little bit longer? And is that how your marriage works? And could you two tell us kind of how your ups and downs have been?”

And all I want to say to those listening is, this generation is so longing for some models and listen before you tell and invite them into your home and feed them and listen and don't make quick judgments and then share your journey and get them in the Scriptures. And it is amazing what God is doing, will do.

I am at a stage and an age and a window of time that I can't do what you do. And why I wanted you to come and share is I want all of us who are a part of Living on the Edge to recognize: let's empower all the people that we know who can do maybe what we can't do, but then let's not get off the hook. Let's do what God has called us to do.

And as much as many of you were leaning in thinking, Oh good, the next generation, I'm glad someone's out there doing it. The real message is God wants to work in me deeply before He's going to work through me significantly.