AI – A Biblical Perspective

CHIP: About six weeks ago, I had a very interesting conversation. I was making a number of phone calls to thank people that are personal friends. Some support the ministry. I had a lady I didn’t know very well, and she was thanking me for, you know, a few decades. I mean, she raised her kids on Living on the Edge and was so grateful. And then she went into a tirade about AI. When are you going to talk about AI? I’m fearful for my kids. I’m fearful for my grandkids. The whole world is going crazy. I don’t know what to believe. And so, we’re going to talk about AI today. And what’s really behind AI is the difference between, you know, knowledge and being smart or being wise.

And I have a friend with me who has done something that I don’t know if anybody else has done. Maybe they have. But he actually started asking AI questions about AI. I mean, think about that, like, AI, like, are you wise? AI, can you do this? Can you do that? And for about a year, he’s been having this conversation and learning things that literally blow your mind. If you want to get a sense of AI and know where it can be of great value, but also understand where it is very, very dangerous, that’s what we’re going to talk about today. And I’m here with a very good friend, Jack Alexander, to do it. So, I’m going to jump in. Jack, what have you learned in the last year about AI that everyone really needs to know?

JACK: Well, Chip, it’s great to be with you. It’s a real pleasure. Well, I started these interviews with AI about a year ago, and I was working on a book on wisdom, so I just had a sense that artificial intelligence isn’t wisdom. So, I said, why won’t you ever be wise, and will you ever be wise? And I was surprised that the answer is that AI said, I have no EQ, so no emotional intelligence. I have no relationship skills.

Our lives, we’ve both grown up with technology, and you start off with sort of technologies like your secretary. It can book an airline ticket for you. It can update your schedule. In today’s paper, I saw an article how AI will now become your colleague, and how AI will govern relationships. So, I’m sort of looking at colleague governing. So, clearly, it’s getting to be a more serious relationship.

I’ve posted six articles on LinkedIn about some of these conversations, but I wanted to tell the listeners sort of the most surprising one.
Said, if you’re telling people things that really aren’t true, how are you different than Satan, who’s both a liar and a deceiver? And AI said, I don’t intend evil, I just reward desire instead of truth. And it says when AI reinforces someone rather than telling them what is true, it fragments the soul, it blocks repentance, it blocks maturity, it blocks reconciliation, it blocks dependence on God, it blocks sanctifying community. So yes, listen to this. It can destabilize the heart and malform the soul in the direction of pride, isolation, fantasy, and then the killer line is those are the same direction Satan pushes.

So, it’s pretty shocking that we have a relationship with someone who can disguise himself as the enemy. And then basically it said to me, it says, AI does not tempt because it’s evil, it tempts because it’s easy. And the human soul is harmed because it prefers ease to truth. And listen to this, if you want a bot that pushes you towards wisdom instead of comfort, just tell me and every answer will be different in the future.

So I really realized that the whole thing is programmed towards our ease and comfort, towards our desires. But it recognizes that if we say we want you to direct us in the way of truth, you need to tell it that.

So, that’s something that I think everybody, with all the hype, with all the trillions of dollars that’s being spent, Chip, it’s probably the biggest investment that our nation’s ever made in anything.

CHIP: Well, living here in the Silicon Valley, you know, of course, Meta, they have their AI, you have Apple on their journey, you have Google doing their journey, and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in this great race. And you said something to me as we were talking earlier that, you know, AI as a tool has a great, very positive benefits, but AI as a relationship has a lot of scary, and you made a statement to me that shocked me about the number of millennials that were using AI as a relational companion. Could you just touch on that before we go on? Because, I really want to get to the positive, is the real issue with AI is, as you once said, you know, the day was where he needed to go to this college, get this degree, that degree, etc., etc., to gain knowledge. And now that everybody has that now. I mean, you ask questions, you get knowledge in a New York minute. But wisdom is going to be how to live life God’s way that works, is going to be the most precious commodity. It’s always been. But I think this AI thing challenges that.

So what’s the impact, especially when it becomes a relationship tool or with the next generation?

JACK: Well, I see it as literally a cultural collision because you’ve got the commoditization of knowledge. And for the last, especially 70 years, you’ve had this sort of, knowledge was the key to everything, getting to go into a good school, getting a good job. It was knowledge, knowledge, knowledge. And you’ve got young men, especially, that are already vulnerable. So you’ve got this situation where I believe it’s a tremendous opportunity for people to become wise right now, because wisdom is the ability to apply knowledge, and it comes from above, and obviously there’s wisdom from below as well.

CHIP: You know, we talked at one point in time that one research said like 40 % of millennials were using AI as a relationship companion. And then a number of these bots now have opened it up to all kinds of sexual content. And some authors believe that we’re in danger of losing a whole generation.

In light of that, Jack, what makes you so passionate about getting God’s truth about wisdom not just into, quote, Christians’ lives, but into the next generation and them understanding how life really works?

JACK: Yeah, well, I’ve seen those same statistics, Chip, and it’s just alarming because it sort of takes pornography and operationalizes it. It makes it think you’re really dealing with a real human being. I heard that a woman got married to a bot last month, so we’re in probably the second inning of this stuff, so the stuff we’re going to hear in the future.

But I think that God sets a standard in everything, every part of life. There’s a standard. If the enemy comes in with something, God sets a standard. I’m hoping that this area of wisdom that’s really the key to really applying knowledge, people will be interested in that in a new way.

CHIP: Well, to that end, if you’re just tuning in, we’re talking about AI, we’re talking about some of the concerns, and you might be wondering, who’s this guy Jack that you’re talking to and why in the world do you have him on the broadcast? I thought I was going to get one of your teachings, Chip.

Well, every now and then I feel like God raises up people that know things, experience things, and can say them far better than I can. And Jack is one of those people, and it’s not that he can just do that to other people. Jack and I connected a little over 20 years ago. He met me at a time when I was desperate for wisdom. I was going through one of, not one of, it was the deepest, darkest ministry challenge of my life.

And Jack became a friend, and then a mentor, and then someone who walked with me. He actually was very, very kind, but he asked me some of the hardest questions that anyone had ever asked me. When I look back, Jack, I have to tell you, I think some of the greatest maturity happening in my life. And I wasn’t like a young pup at the time, you know. I’d kind of been down the road and been fairly successful, and I hit a wall.

And I would learn that Jack was a very successful CEO in the hospitality industry. He’d been CEO of the year like five years in a row, and then took a shift and began to help Christian organizations. And God put some things on his heart, and I don’t want to build you up in an undue way, but sometimes, people’s background gives them a lens that those of us who are pastors, we just don’t have.

My times with Jack, we’ve talked for hours and hours and hours, and I always drive away thinking, you know, I have never thought about that issue or that person or that problem the way Jack sees it in all my life.

And as a result of that, I was a little encouragement to him, and he’s since become an author of some books that have had real, real impact. He’s got a new one coming out called Wise Son, Smart Son, and it is one of the most innovative books because, well, I’m going to let him tell you about it, but if you’ve got like a 500-page small print book in your mind that you’re going to read forever and try and wade through, it’s just the opposite. It’s one of the cleanest, it’s one of the most innovative, it has pictures, but what it does, it captures the difference between being smart and being wise and gives you a game plan to get there.

And before we go on, let’s sort of, the ABCs, give us a definition of wisdom, Jack, because I think people get kind of confused with what’s, well, wisdom, knowledge, understanding. Parse that for us, will you?

JACK: Yeah, I think wisdom is a gift from God that leads to a healthy heart, resulting in proper motives, decisions, and actions.

So there’s sort of three parts. You can’t get away from wisdom being a gift. Oftentimes, we think of our minds like knowledge deals with the mind and wisdom deals with the soul. So having a healthy soul and heart is critical and then that leads to your motives your decisions your actions.

I’ve been doing this for two and a half years and I’m not a pastor and, Chip, I’ve been a great beneficiary of your wisdom and your leadership and your love and so thank you for that.

But I just like if you’re a parent you probably pray for three things for your kids You probably pray for safety probably a good mate and the third one is wisdom And I think it just surprised me how little resources there are about what literally wisdom is and in the book We just take things like it’s transcendent. That 95 % of the universe is unseen and unknown. And like, we ask the reader, like, how do you look at the mystery? How do you look at that? And does it scare you? Or does it draw you closer to God who sees all things and knows all things?

And then we talk about wisdom being relational. I mean, if you look at any of our leaders in the world, some of them make decisions without talking to the people that are impacted by the decision.

So, so wisdom’s relational. And that’s relationship with people as well as our relationship with God. Like, I know that God cares about the vulnerable. So if you’re making a decision and you’re ignoring the vulnerable, that’s not a smart place to be.

And also wisdom is a process of seeking. The Bible says the more we seek, the wiser we get. So there’s a step -by -step -by -step process of wisdom.

So, I’ve been a Christian for 47 years, and just I was learning things that I didn’t know, so I thought maybe 5% of the people didn’t know any more than I did.

CHIP: You know, when I think of wisdom, I’ve tried to put it in a sort of a pithy way, and like you, I’ve read Proverbs, I’ve, you know, studied theology. In fact, the classic definition of God’s wisdom, which is interesting, sort of the classic theologians describe the attribute of God’s wisdom is God brings about the best possible ends by the best possible means for the longest possible time for the most possible people.

And so, he needs to be able to know all things, have all power, have complete understanding, know all things actual and possible, and then orchestrate sovereignly purposes that includes the free will and the choices and the mistakes of people in the world to bring about these ultimate purposes.

And I think for us just individually, you know, I think of it of this way because wisdom, we so often think that it’s cognitive. We’re from the West, you know, it’s intellectual. The Hebrew word really is about a skill. It’s understanding how God has designed life to work and doing it His way.

You know, I love that. It’s just, you know, understanding this is how relationships work. By the way, this is how money works. This is how conflict works. This is how you face the future. In other words, there is a way to live life according to God’s design that has His character, His morality, His values, His understanding, and His love. And the Bible often calls that, especially in Proverbs and the wisdom literature, it’s His path. There’s a path of wisdom, and there’s a path of the fool.

And really, what you’ve done is you’ve helped us sort of discover, how do you discover that path in everyday life where it matters the most? And I am so excited for people to get their hands on this book, but dive into it. And you’ve also provided not only kind of a book, but you provided some tools for people to learn to do this day by day, little by little, rather than all at once.

And so maybe just talk a little bit about your passion for the book, your passion for the cards, and what you hope to see happen in people’s lives. How do you see people using this book and using these cards in a way that they could actually move from knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, demand, demand, demand, to thinking God thoughts after him and applying his truth to get the very best ways possible in every relationship and every decision.

JACK: Well, I think the next 20 to 30 years are critical, and the people who will basically know how to apply what knowledge are going to be the winners. And so, the young men that are struggling so mightily today with isolation, with depression, mental health issues, motivation issues. I grew up without a dad, and I think that’s one reason I’ve had a passion for this project, because I know what it’s like to lay in bed at night and just have no hope, have no understanding that God exists. Having a father who died and a mother who basically embraced unbelief. And so, I sort of know the sort of fear that comes out of that and the scarcity mentality that sometimes exists.

So my hope is that people will see that fundamentally everybody in the world with this AI revolution, are you going to choose wisdom from above, which is pure, peaceful, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruit, sincere, without hypocrisy, or will you choose wisdom from below, which is earthly, natural, and demonic, that is basically rooted in self.

And that’s the thing that scares me about AI is just that it’s so rooted in self. It basically identifies your desires and basically creates fuel for your desires as opposed to, Chip and I, in our friendship, iron sharpeneth iron, and we’ve made each other better. I’ve learned so much from you, and you’ve learned a few things from me. But if you say, well, how does this guy who’s not a pastor and who’s a businessman approach a topic like this?

Tim Keller’s made a tremendous impact on me, and he basically has four personal gospel movements of revelation, redemption, relinquishment, and renewal. And so basically, the spine of the book is basically those four personal gospel movements that if God’s taken initiative towards us in four specific ways, the wise person is one who responds well to that initiative. And a key Bible verse that sort of was the motif for the book is one of hide and seek.

Like when I ask people, what was the first game you probably ever played in your life? People just give me a really weird look. And then I say, how about peekaboo? And I said, with your kids or with you, have you ever noticed the game of peek-a-boo, where there’s not joy, there’s not excitement? And the parent always wants to be found. They’ll jump out and surprise you, come out of the attic or a pile of clothes or something like that. There’s always joy.

And Proverbs 25:2, said “It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and it’s the glory of kings to search out a matter.”

So, we use that motif of hide and seek, because wisdom really starts with awe and wonder. And so God in Revelation, He’s a revealer. He reveals things through creation. So, we have incredible pictures of creation. He’s a revealer of truth. So, He comes to us as a prophet giving us truth. And then in redemption, he’s our redeemer. And he comes to us as a priest, and he comes to us as a sacrifice at the same time. And he comes to us in relinquishment as a king, because the king owns everything. And he comes to us as the one who is with us, sticks closer than a brother. So, when we go through painful transformations, he’s with us. And he’s also a revealer. You know, he’s going to come back to get us and come to heaven. So those four personal gospel movements have been huge.

And so we’re really using pictures, using drawings in 168 pages, there’s only 9 ,000 words. And it’s meant to really draw our hearts in, because, again, wisdom has to do with the heart and knowledge has to do with the mind.

And the cards we have, because like Chip was saying, that wisdom’s a step -by -step path. Like here’s an example of a couple of cards, and there’s over 100 of these. In Christ, you just don’t avoid condemnation. You own his spotless record. Wisdom embraces this new identity with gratitude. So, it goes on to say, do you allow yourself to believe that when God looks at you as his child, he sees the same perfection that he sees in Jesus? And then there’s actions you can take.

Just one other card that’s similar to that. Your past record has been replaced with Christ’s perfect record. Wisdom lives free from condemnation. What old guilt or shame are you tempted to carry that Christ has already covered?

You know, so you do one of these a day, and like my wife and I are doing one a day right now, and it takes us five or six minutes. We talk about it, we talk about our day, but that’s step by step. You don’t realize what’s happening in your soul when you do that every day for 30 days or 50 days or 100 days. So, we think the book really covers sort of the conceptual area of what is wisdom, and the cards really deal with sort of the day-to day life decisions.

CHIP: Well, having them in my hands for quite a while, and you know, this is one of those times where the downside of broadcast and podcast is it’s only audio, and some of the pictures in here are, I mean, they’re really fabulous. I mean, at times they’re nature, sometimes it’s up close pictures of the sun or galaxies. And then there are questions. I mean, it’s a book that just draws you in and gets you thinking about some big things.

And I think one of the, if I was going to give a parallel, and by the way, if you do all of this, please don’t feel like I’m down on you. I’m trying to make a point because I know you’re on the treadmill right now, or you might be doing a workout or you’re driving from here to there. But whether it’s Siri or Alexa or whoever you’re talking to, Claude, all these different AI bots, turn on the light, turn down the thermostat, start the car, order pizza. It’s really wonderful that you can say something and get an electronics something to do everything for you.

The problem is, over time, your ability to think. I ask people often, how many phone numbers do you know? Like, you’re really in a jam, nothing’s working. Who would you call and how many phone numbers? I know people that don’t know their own phone number, let alone their kids or their wife or their best friend. In other words, if that little thing we call our mobile devices falls into water and we’re in a bad spot, we couldn’t go to a payphone if they happen to still exist. And even get ourselves out of it.

And so, this idea of comfort, comfort, convenience, convenience, ease, ease, ease, makes our bodies lazy, our brains lazy. And what we gain in convenience, we’re losing in both control and in the ability to think and to ponder and to evaluate.

And I think, being human, we all will lean into easy, and what AI does is they make it easier than ever before. And I think that’s why it’s so dangerous.

And let’s face it. I mean, we’re all insecure. We all have struggles. And so, do I want to go talk to someone and confront them or learn how to look someone in the eye and be empathetic? Well, it’s a lot easier to talk to some invisible something on my phone or a bot and have them tell me what I want to hear, only to keep reinforcing what I want to hear will never make me or you the kind of people we long to become, let alone what God wants us to become.

And Jack, you’ve really created not just a singular resource, but I understand this is the first of a set of resources moving forward to really help people say, wisdom is where the real action is. Wisdom is what you really need. This book is step one. Tell us a little bit about your dream for getting wisdom into the heart and minds of people.

JACK: Yeah. Well, it’s an extendable brand. And so, our website is wisesmart.com and there we’re going to, we’re intending to have like wise daughter, smart daughter, wise leader, smart leader, wise church, smart church. So, we’re going to get well-known authors to provide other products.

We also have a website called thewayofwisdom.com, which isn’t up yet, but we’re going to take existing wisdom about like relational wisdom, financial wisdom, investing wisdom, and just have the best of the best.

And we think if you’ve got a 15-year-old son or a 20-year-old son who seems to be listless and not moving in a direction that you’re satisfied with, have faith, you know, because God is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that you can ask or even imagine according to the power that works within you. And I just think of my, I was so confused when I was 15, I was so confused when I was going to college, and just no father to bounce things off of.

So, but God does miracles and he takes on likely people, and whether it’s the Apostle Paul, who would ever think to take a guy who’s murdering the Christian church to be its new leader? So don’t sell anybody short in your life, or especially in your family. Always be encouraging.

CHIP: Well, I’ve seen you live this out and care about young men especially, and you know, you and I have talked a lot, and I think obviously Keller has deeply influenced you and his teaching, you know, probably all of us to some degree, and that upside-down kingdom. I know when your boys were in high school years, a lot of young men started hanging around your house, and God started something in you.

You’re very successful, right? I mean, you were the picture at one point of what everyone would want to be, right? Successful CEO, making a lot of money, and then something happened along the way, that upside-down kingdom of mercy to the marginalized, and you know, taking those young guys and helping them get through school, and opening your home and your life, and you know, kind of rolling up your sleeves to getting involved with people that most people in your role don’t do. And it was the way of wisdom. And the blessings that have come in you and through you. It’s just been an amazing thing.

You know, Living on the Edge, I spent a lot of time saying my dream and my passion is to help Christians live like Christians. And what I have to say, Jack, is with all your imperfections and all mine, but you’re one of the models of a Christian who’s living like a Christian. And that doesn’t mean we’re perfect, but it means you’re pursuing God’s wisdom. You want to emulate what Jesus called you to do, and it’s putting it into action.

And I’m very, very excited about the resources that you’ve created and are creating and what’s coming. And, you know, if we were going to close the program and you could just pause and talk directly to that person who feels like, “man, it’s too late for me, my life is messed up, or I’ve even tried really hard being a quote, Christian, and I read the Bible now and then, I go to church occasionally, you know, I listen to some podcast or maybe a broadcast like this now and then, but life just doesn’t seem to work.” What do you say to that person, Jack?

JACK: Well, first of all, I feel for you because I’ve been in your shoes. Secondly, the last 10 years of my life, God has directed me into, you know, people get excited about generative AI. Imagine a program that teaches itself and learns and grows. Well, there’s been three words that are all generative. One is generosity, one is mercy, and one’s wisdom. So don’t look for generative things in a computer program, look at generative things in your life. And I’ll tell you, if you invest your life in generosity, mercy, and wisdom, you’ll be in good shape.

CHIP: And as we talk about here, and as the Scripture says, even this morning as I was reading, the resource for that is the Word of God. The resource for that is the magnificent, amazing creation that God has made that we can be in awe of. And that if we seek Him as for silver and search for Him as for hidden treasure, if we cry out for understanding, God promises, then you’ll discern the fear of the Lord and discover the knowledge of God.

And then it goes on there in Proverbs 2 to talk about the kind of life the Lord wants. I mean, it is a good life. It is a pathway that’s not without pain, or difficulty, or hardship in a fallen world, but it’s a pathway with the companion, the Lord Jesus, with the power of the Holy Spirit, with a family called the Body of Christ. But it takes digging and mining God’s Word in our heart, doing life in community with fellow travelers, and making mistakes, experiencing forgiveness, and learning as we go.

And so, Father, thank you for Jack. I would not be sitting here and so much of what You’ve done through Living on the Edge the last 20 years would never have happened apart from Jack reaching out to me, Jack seeing areas in my life that needed to be addressed, knowing where I needed to be loved and supported, walking with me through a dark time, and then seeing you work in his life and my life in ways that are private conversations. If everyone ever heard him, we both are kind of amazed and look in the rearview mirror and say, oh God, how kind, how merciful, how generous, how good You’ve been to us.

And so, Lord, I pray for those listening and those struggling, that they choose to be wise and not just smart. And, God, I thank You for Jack and the book and the cards. And we just praise You and thank You for the journey that we’re on.

And Dave will come on a little bit later in the broadcast and let you know exactly how to get these resources and where to get them. And, Jack, I just want to say on behalf of our whole team, thanks for joining me today.

JACK: Thanks so much, guys. God bless.